New Article on false prophets of the Watchtower:
jonathan dough
JoinedPosts by jonathan dough
-
31
Do NOT be mislead, False Prophets will not inherit Gods Kingdom yet THAT is what some of you were!
by Greybeard inyes many of us here were false prophets parroting the wts/gb/jworg's false teachings for years.
"new lite" = time ran out... has anyone noticed how the wts keeps quoting genesis 6:3, the scripture on a generation lasting 120 years?
they did it again in yesterdays wt study.
-
-
-
7
false prophets
by fakesmile inim just thinking out loud here, which isnt exactly my strong suit.
but how can an organisation send half cocked "ministers" who are uneducated/ ill prepared and often have the most atrocious family arrangements, to tell complete strangers how they should live their lives?
is it an inside joke?
-
-
jonathan dough
New Article on false prophets of the Watchtower:
-
47
WHEN WAS ANCIENT JERUSALEM DESTROYED? Why does it matter? The Watchtower October 1, 2011 and November 1, 2011
by wannabefree inwhen was ancient jerusalem destroyed?.
a critique of the two-part article published in the public editions of.
the watchtower of october 1, 2011, pages 26-31 and.
-
-
jonathan dough
Follow these links for the truth about 607.
A. Introduction
B. Historical Overview
C. Overview of the Controversy
D. Servitude
E. The seventy-year prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11 did not apply to Jerusalem and Judah alone but to all nations which fell under the domination of the Babylonian Empire. These nations as a unit, comprising the Babylonian Empire collectively, served the king(s) of Babylon seventy years.
F. The servitude referred to at Jeremiah 25:11 whereby the nations which fell under the domination of the Babylonian Empire would serve the king of Babylon seventy years included a) vassalage, b) willing exile, and/or c) forced captivity and exile.
G. The nations' seventy years of servitude ended in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon fell to the Persians and Medes while the exiles were still in Babylon, thus bringing to a conclusion the servitude prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11, before the Jews returned home.
H. The seventy years could not have ended when the exiles returned to Judah in 537 B.C.E. because there existed no king of Babylon to serve for two years between 537 B.C.E. and 539 B.C.E., after Persia began its reign in 539 B.C.E..
I. The phrase "and all this land must become a devasted place, an object of astonishment" at Jeremiah 25:11 does not mean a) the land Judah, and Jerusalem, would exist without a single inhabitant, b) for a period of exactly 70 years, c) beginning with Jerusalem's destruction.
J. The devastated condition of Judah does not mean it existed in that state without a single inhabitant.
K. The devastation of Judah and Jerusalem at Jeremiah 25:11 referred to its devastated condition after Jerusalem's destruction and during the many years before that city fell.
L. The Bible shows that Judah was "a devastated place, an object of astonishment" during the years leading up to Jerusalem's destruction.
M. The fulfillment of the "devastations of Jerusalem [namely,] seventy years" at Daniel 9:2 refers to the end of Babylon's seventy years of world domination and the technical end of Jerusalem's devasted condition. It does not mean that Jerusalem - and by extension Judah - was devastated (without inhabitant) exactly seventy years.
N. Further Reading and Acknowledgements -
39
Luke 16:19-31 Sheol/Hades/Hell? literal vs. metaphor
by I_love_Jeff injehovah's witnesses say this is just a parable and that there is no eternal punishment.
for me, i do not believe in eternal punishment even though there is a lot of information in the bible which strongly favors eternal damnation: .
the bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following: .
-
-
jonathan dough
Good quote, this supports the contention that Jesus was leaning towards the progressive wing of Judaism and not the strict Torah alone party.
Leaning towards? You don't know Jesus of the Bible. The Gospel breaks with Judaism whether progrerssive or conservative, nails the Old Covenant to the cross. Christ is about the New Covenant, not the old.
-
23
Will Hitler be forgiven just because he died????????
by The Searcher ini cannot fathom how the vast majority of my 7.5 million brothers and sisters, (especially all who are members of the worldwide order of special full-time servants of jehovahs witnesses) can believe for one second, the "given" explanation of romans 6:7. this is what taught; .
insight book - 2p.138judgmentday - "those resurrected will not be judged on the basis of the works done in their former life, because the rule at romans 6:7 says: he who has died has been acquitted from his sin.".
therefore, the following 6 scriptures can be ripped out of our bibles, because jesus does not have the god-given right to judge any dead people - because our own death has washed our sins away!!!
-
-
jonathan dough
All men are judged for their conduct in this life; true believers are passed over in the condemnation[Home]
Paul stated that man is judged on the basis of deeds committed while in the present physical body, not the resurrected body of the next age.We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight ... we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. (2 Cor 5:6-10, NAB)
Since we are all judged for our conduct in this life, whether good or evil, Paul was speaking not only to the 144,000 as the Jehovah's Witnesses routinely claim, but to all men. The implications of this are enormous because first century Christians were therefore comprised not only of the 144,000 and the New Testament was not directed in most instances to only the 144,000. Of course, the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that since Paul's words here refer only to the anointed 144,000, it still allows for resurrected man to be judged for deeds committed in the next physical body. But if that is the case, not only are some of the 144,000 committing evil deeds today, the 144,000 anointed are judged like the rest of us. And since some of the 144,000 are evil-doers because they don't live up to their own high ethical standards they can't be part of the 144,000. Therefore it is impossible to use that number 144,000 as a benchmark for counting down to the end times, for identifying who of the anointed remain on earth. No one knows who they are until they have been sifted through the judgment process.
The Jehovah's Witnesses counter this by modifying verse 10 to conform to their doctrine by claiming the anointed are "awarded," not judged, implying that they all will receive something good, but such an interpretation flies contrary to the "evil" conduct of some of their members which shall be punished, not awarded. Furthermore, a literal interpretation does not say they will be "awarded." -
23
Will Hitler be forgiven just because he died????????
by The Searcher ini cannot fathom how the vast majority of my 7.5 million brothers and sisters, (especially all who are members of the worldwide order of special full-time servants of jehovahs witnesses) can believe for one second, the "given" explanation of romans 6:7. this is what taught; .
insight book - 2p.138judgmentday - "those resurrected will not be judged on the basis of the works done in their former life, because the rule at romans 6:7 says: he who has died has been acquitted from his sin.".
therefore, the following 6 scriptures can be ripped out of our bibles, because jesus does not have the god-given right to judge any dead people - because our own death has washed our sins away!!!
-
-
jonathan dough
The Jehovah's Witnesses' teaching that resurrected man, including billions of non-believers, will not be judged for sins committed in this life is not biblical[Home]
As difficult as it might be to wrap one’s mind around, the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that resurrected mankind, roughly 20 billion, are judged based on their deeds or conduct during the thousand year reign, not this life today. For all practical purposes they are starting all over again. They reason that because man is supposedly acquitted of sin at death and that he paid for his sins with the wages of death he cannot be put on judgment for evil deeds committed in this life, only the next life during the thousand year reign. He will be judged based on his obedience to future millennial Law scrolls, divine instruction or laws and regulations (the Watchtower magazine, etc.?) which are intended to educate or enlighten him to perfection.Both those who formerly did good things and those who formerly practiced bad things will be “judged individually according to their deeds.“ What deeds? If we were to take the view that people were going to be condemned on the basis of deeds in their past life, that would be inconsistent with Romans 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” It would also be unreasonable to resurrect people simply for them to be destroyed. So, at John 5:28, 29a, Jesus was pointing ahead to the resurrection; then, in the remainder of verse 29, he was expressing the outcome after they had been uplifted to human perfection and been put on judgment. (Reasoning, 337)
Time of the earthly resurrection. We note that this judgment is placed in the Bible in the account of events occurring during Christ's Thousand Year Reign with his associate kings and priests. These, the apostle Paul said, "will judge the world." (1Co 6:2) "The great and the small," persons from all walks of life, will be there to be judged impartially. They are "judged out of those things written in the scrolls" that will be opened then. This could not mean a record of their past lives nor a set of rules that judges them on the basis of their past lives. For since "the wages sin pays is death," these by their death have received the wages of their sin in the past. (Ro 6:7, 23) (Insight p. 788)
Since these discussions of Romans 6:7 and Romans 6:23 were placed side-by-side the contradiction should have been self-evident. The manner in which the Jehovah’s Witnesses interpret these verses renders them mutually exclusive. If one is acquitted of sin he is declared not guilty and avoids punishment. As such he would not then be punished with death, the wages of sin. Furthermore, it is curious why they apply Romans 6:7 (“for he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin”) to the resurrected unrighteous when the surrounding paragraphs are directed to only the so-called 144,000 who alone are supposedly baptized into Christ’s death (Rom. 6:1-11) under their doctrine. It makes absolutely no sense.
That aside, the Greek word dikaioo means ‘acquittal’ (NWT) or ‘absolved’ (NAB) ‘justified’ (Green’s Literal), or primarily ‘deemed to be right’ (Vine’s, 69). But if you look closely at its use in Romans 6:7 you will notice that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have plucked it out of context as they frequently do and fail to understand the unambiguous meaning of Paul’s discourse. He was referring to a spiritual death to sin for the Christian believer, not the physical, mortal death of all men.
1 Consequently, what shall we say? Shall we continue in sin, that undeserved kindness may abound? 2 Never may that happen! Seeing that we died with reference to sin, how shall we keep on living any longer in it? 3 Or do YOU not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that, just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also should likewise walk in a newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall certainly also be [united with him in the likeness] of his resurrection; 6 because we know that our old personality was impaled with [him], that our sinful body might be made inactive, that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin. 7 For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin.
8 Moreover, if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. 9 For we know that Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more. 10 For [the death] that he died, he died with reference to sin once for all time; but [the life] that he lives, he lives with reference to God. 11 Likewise also YOU: reckon yourselves to be dead indeed with reference to sin but living with reference to God by Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin continue to rule as king in YOUR mortal bodies that YOU should obey their desires. 13 Neither go on presenting YOUR members to sin as weapons of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, also YOUR members to God as weapons of righteousness. 14 For sin must not be master over YOU, seeing that YOU are not under law but under undeserved kindness. (Rom. 6:1-14 NWT)
Paul is defending “the gospel against the charge that it promotes moral laxity” (NAB note 6, 1-11). He refers to having ‘died to sin,’ and that those baptized were baptized into Christ’s death and buried with him. The symbolic death leads to life with Christ. And true believers must think of themselves as being dead to sin. Nothing in those verses can be interpreted to imply a physical death, or that all evil people are acquitted of their sins at death because Paul made it very clear that “…it is reserved for men to die once for all time and after this a judgment” (Heb. 9:27 NWT). The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ misinterpretation would actually encourage moral laxity.
Furthermore, Christ died only once for sin and will never again return to die for forgiveness of sins so the resurrected sinful billions could never obtain the benefit of his sacrifice which he made under the so-called expired New Covenant (Romans 6:10). Christ died once (Heb. 9:27,28).
And Hebrews 6:23 cannot mean that all men are punished with death for their sins. This too is taken out of context because Jesus said “… whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation but has passed from death to life” (John 5:24). The wages of sin, death, is not everyone’s punishment or reward.
21 What, then, was the fruit that YOU used to have at that time? Things of which YOU are now ashamed. For the end of those things is death. 22 However, now, because YOU were set free from sin but became slaves to God, YOU are having YOUR fruit in the way of holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom. 6:21-23 NWT)
The Christian path leads to eternal life even though one dies physically, with one limited exception at 1 Corinthians 15:51,52. For others there is spiritual death followed by physical death and judgment; nothing here even remotely suggests that they will not be judged on Judgment Day for deeds committed in this life.
-
39
Luke 16:19-31 Sheol/Hades/Hell? literal vs. metaphor
by I_love_Jeff injehovah's witnesses say this is just a parable and that there is no eternal punishment.
for me, i do not believe in eternal punishment even though there is a lot of information in the bible which strongly favors eternal damnation: .
the bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following: .
-
-
jonathan dough
God's ignorance of his own design is on display for anyone willing to examine the evidence.
Be careful. It is a fearful thing to fall in the hands of the living God.
-
39
Luke 16:19-31 Sheol/Hades/Hell? literal vs. metaphor
by I_love_Jeff injehovah's witnesses say this is just a parable and that there is no eternal punishment.
for me, i do not believe in eternal punishment even though there is a lot of information in the bible which strongly favors eternal damnation: .
the bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following: .
-
-
jonathan dough
Methinks you need to review the concept of 'burden of proof': if you postulate the existence of a soul, you must do far better than cite historical precedence in such beliefs. Review the ancient roles of nephesh and ruah, noting the subtle differences; both have long-since been abandoned by science on no lack of confirmatory findings.
Burden of proof? We're not litigating, and faith is not something which must be "proven" in the conventional sense. It can't be. How can one prove the resurrection of the dead?
Of course science has abandoned the concept of a soul, that's the entire point. "Science" doesn't believe in a creator, either, or the Bible, or the resurrection, and the list goes on. As believers, which you obviously are not, the precedence cited is found within the Bible which is sufficient for those of us who know better. We walk by faith, not by sight, and the words found within that book which you so obviously disdain, at your own peril I might add.
http://www.soul.host-ed.me/i-soul-5.html
http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_directory_beliefs.html
As for atheists and "scientists" getting the final word in on the matter, their theories might have abandoned the concept of a soul, but their theories have also been reputiated by very knowledgable experts in the field who have proven quite successfully that scientific materialists can't even agree on the core issues, and have a lot of explaining to do because the "science" is not science at all and fails the burden of disproving the existence of a soul. If you're truly interested I suggest reading"The Soul Hypothesis."
In the Soul Hypothesis: Investigations into the Existence of the Soul(Continuum), co-editors Mark C. Baker and Stewart Goetz have assembled an impressive interdisciplinary team of scholars to address questions about the existence and nature of the soul.
“The Soul of the Matter” - Charles Taliaferro
“Minds, Brains and Brains in Vats” - Daniel N. Robinson
“Brains and Souls; Grammar and Speaking” - Mark Baker
“Making Things Happen: Souls in Action” - Stewart Goetz
“Energy of the Soul” - Robin Collins
“The Measure of All Things: Quantum Mechanics and the Soul” - Dean Zimmerman
“From Seeing to Seer” - Hans Halvorson
“Souls Beastly and Human” - William Hasker
“A Scientific Case for the Soul” - Robin CollinsYou can preview the book here.
The book is unique is combining philosophical and scientific arguments for dualism, and the result is a rigorous, exciting, persuasive presentation of the issues and a stimulating challenge to so much of the reductionism that reigns in the sciences. As was noted in a recent review of the book in the WSJ,
Sooner or later, the contributors to "The Soul Hypothesis" warn, scientists will pinpoint the exact three neurons whose firing accompanies the thought of our deciding to make a phone call or, if you prefer, deciding to get up and get a beer from the refrigerator. As ever more such micro-couplings are observed, we will—so scientists tell us with unseemly glee— gradually come to see that our cherished conscious life is nothing but a long series of electrical impulses, not an autonomous realm of free will and free thought. Co-editor Mark C. Baker cites the psychologist Steven Pinker, who finds it plausible to say that neural "activity in the brain" simply "is the mind."
The book's contributors set out this scientific challenge fully and engagingly, but they also expose its fallacies. They note, for instance, that even if two things differ in their essential nature, as do mental thoughts and physical actions—or legislatures and laws—there is no reason why the one can't cause the other. As David Hume argued, what establishes our idea of cause and effect is the regular "conjunction" of two events. That a physical act regularly follows a mental decision suggests, as co-editor Stewart Goetz writes, that the one is "causing" the other and that voluntary human action exists.
-
25
where is that quote in the WT on even thinking against the WT constitutes apostasy?
by WildeLover incan someone direct me to that quote ?
i think it was back in the 80s?
i have looked and can't find it anywhere?.
-
-
jonathan dough
if a baptized Christian abandons the teachings of Jehovah, as presented by the faithful and discreet slave, and persists in believing other doctrine despite Scriptural reproof, then he is apostatizing. Extended kindly efforts should be put forth to readjust his thinking. However, if after such extended efforts have been put forth to readjust his thinking, he continues to believe his apostate ideas and rejects what he has been provided through the slave class, then appropriate judicial action should be taken.
Devil talk, and it begs the question, who really is the apostate? If the JWs are wrong, and they are wrong about almost everything with respect to their core theology, not to mention practical application of Scripture, then they are the true apostates, having abandoned the Gospel.
-
39
Luke 16:19-31 Sheol/Hades/Hell? literal vs. metaphor
by I_love_Jeff injehovah's witnesses say this is just a parable and that there is no eternal punishment.
for me, i do not believe in eternal punishment even though there is a lot of information in the bible which strongly favors eternal damnation: .
the bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following: .
-
-
jonathan dough
The pre-hellenistic interpretation of the few mentions of Sheol and the rephaim are vague and varied.
While the "interpretation" might have been vague or varied, the Scriptures referencing them are not. A reasonable person would be hard pressed to make the case for annihilationism, even in the OT, that at death all that is man becomes extinct as the JWs teach incorrectly, to be reasembled in the future, and that no conscious immaterial entity soul (spirit) survives the death of the body. Add the proof texts of the NT and annihilationism crumbles, as does soul materialism, a major platform of Watchtower pseudo-theology.
You forgot to mention the 'owb.' That the departed dead spirits in Sheol are conscious and communicate and think is reiterated at Isaiah 29:4 (KJV) where God warned the inhabitants of Jerusalem of their impending destruction, writing through the prophet, “Prostrate you shall speak from the earth, and from the base dust your words shall come. Your voice shall be like a ghost's (Hebrew, owb) (Vine's at 178), from the earth, and your words like chirping from the dust.” (NAB). According to Vine's, “Owb means 'spirit' (of the dead); necromancy, pit. This word usually represents the troubled spirit (or spirits) of the dead. This meaning appears unquestionably in Isaiah 29:4” (ibid.).
The Jehovah's Witnesses are technically “materialists” and subscribe to the doctrine of materialism (not to be confused with greed and the accumulation of things). Materialists deny body/soul dualism and the very existence of a “soul.” They believe all cognitive functions of thought, emotions, will and conscience, etc. are biological consequences of the material self, the body. When the body dies, that which traditionalists call the soul (spirit) simply vanishes and ceases to exist. “For the materialists, the soul, or the conscious life, is but a function of the organism, and necessarily perishes at death” (www.newadvent.org/cathen/07687a.htm).
Materialism is not unique to the Watchtower Society. It can be traced back to the Greek philosopher Epicurus (341-270 B.C.) who taught, among other things, that nothing exists except matter and space (PBD at 256). Epicurus believed that ... he could disprove the possibility of the soul's survival after death Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epicurus/. Furthermore, “[t]he Epicurean school offers us the most complete and reasoned negation of immortality among ancient philosophers” (newadvent.org/cathen/07687 at 3). Epicureanism was widespread and popular during the time of Christ, and it is logical to conclude that the Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrine of materialism is rooted in this Greek philosophy.
Similarly, the ancient Sadducees, a religious party that existed during the time of Christ and which had members in the Jewish council called the Sanhedrin (which caused Christ to be put to death) denied “personal immortality, and retribution in a future life (PBD at 741), just like the Jehovah's Witnesses. “The doctrine of the Sadducees,” wrote Josephus,” is this, that souls die with the bodies,” (Antiq. Xviii. 1, 4); and again, “they also take away the belief of the immortal duration of the soul, and the punishments and rewards in Hades” (Jewish War, ii,i,14) (PBD at 741), just as the Jehovah's Witnesses teach.
In contemporary times the Jehovah's Witnesses are allied with secular atheists and other non-Christians on the margins who go to great lengths to deny the existence of the Christian immortal soul, or any soul for that matter, claiming that the soul is nothing more than the product of an organism, secretions of the brain and such, basing their claims in part on “neurophysiology,” (Restoring the Soul to Christianity, DR 502, J.P. Moreland, http://www.equip.org/articles/restoring-the-soul-to-christianity/).
Lastly, there has been a recent rash of materialist apologetics – evangelical preachers – who argue that Christian body/soul dualism is false, that a person is not a composite of body and soul, that the soul does not survive the death of the body, and the resurrected unsaved wicked are not punished eternally, or at all, but are simply extinguished, annihilated, being treated to a kinder, gentler, one-size-fits-all form of punishment. Of course it is no surprise that such modern-day preachers are attempting to overturn 2,000 years of Christian theology, for the Bible warns us that “in the last days, false teachers and false prophets will appear among us (2 Peter 2:1; Matthew 24:11).